Richie Unterberger Interview

San Francisco based writer Richie Unterberger is probably one of America’s foremost chroniclers of rock ‘n’ roll and popular culture. Amongst his numerous books is White Light/White Heat: The Velvet Underground Day-By-Day, which was published this year by Jawbone Press. He has also written hundreds of liner notes and reviews as well as artist biographies for All Music Guide. His website is www.richieunterberger.com.

 

When did you first start writing about music?

I first started writing about music in 1983, when I started reviewing albums for Op magazine, a publication focusing on independent music of all sorts.

 

Can you give me a potted history of your music journalism?

After reviewing albums and writing occasional small items for Op magazine in 1983-1984, I was editor of Option magazine from 1985-1991, which also focused on independent music of all genres. I became a reviewer for the All Music Guide website and book series in 1993, and still review records and write artist biographies for the website.
I became a full-time freelance writer in 1996 and my first book, Unknown Legends Of Rock'n'Roll, was published in 1998. My most recent book, White Light/White Heat: The Velvet Underground Day-By-Day, is my tenth (one previous book, The Rough Guide To Shopping With A Conscience, was co-authored with another writer).
Besides writing books, I've also written several hundred liner notes for CD reissues on several labels, though most often for Collectors' Choice Music. I've also contributed music reviews and articles to numerous books and publications, including MOJO, Record Collector, the San Francisco Bay Guardian, the Rough Guide To Rock, The Rough Guide Book Of Playlists, the East Bay Express, 100 Albums That Changed Music, the Oxford American, the Daily Telegraph, No Depression, Ugly Things, American Songwriter, and Perfect Sound Forever. I've also been among the music journalists interviewed for recent film documentaries on the Byrds, Tim Buckley, Frank Zappa & The Mothers Of Invention, The Doors, and Jandek.

 

Can you tell me about the books you’ve written on music?

There are extensive details about them on my website, www.richieunterberger.com. Generally, however, I write about rock music history, usually though not always from the 1960s. I've written a great deal about obscure cult artists, and in my books about well-known artists, I've gone into extreme depth on a little-known aspect of their career (The Unreleased Beatles: Music And Film) or more extreme depth about a career than any previous book on the artist has done (White Light/White Heat: The Velvet Underground Day-By-Day). I've done hundreds of first-hand interviews for my books, as well as accessing many print sources and unreleased/rare recordings that have rarely been republished, and in some cases have never been seen or heard by anyone else. Though I do a lot of research and present a lot of information, I try to write my books in a style that is highly accessible and enjoyable to read.

 

What was the research/writing process like for your latest book White Light/White Heat: The Velvet Underground Day By Day?

It was pretty intensive, especially as in comparison to a well-known group of their era like The Beatles or even The Kinks or the Byrds, their activities weren't nearly as well documented. I interviewed about 100 people with some relation to The Velvet Underground story, some of whom had rarely or never been interviewed about them before. I went through mountains of printed material in books and vintage publications, some of which were quite rare and borrowed from collectors' and memorabilia dealers' collections. I went through microfilm for weeks to find articles/reviews/interviews about The Velvets that had never been reprinted, particularly in alternative or "underground" newspapers from 1966-1971. I went to the Andy Warhol Museum in Pittsburgh to do research on The Velvet Underground-related materials held in its archives, as I did in some other facilities such as the Anthology Film Archives in New York, the Paley Centre for Media in both New York and Los Angeles, and the Sony-BMG Music archives in New York. I heard as much unreleased music (and there's a lot) of The Velvet Underground that's in circulation (and a little that's not) as I could, as well as rare non-Velvet Underground recordings from the time by John Cale, Lou Reed, and Nico. I also found and arranged for use of quite a few rare photos, posters, and illustrations.
Having said all this, again I emphasise that while the raw information is essential, it's at least as essential to shape this into a highly readable and coherent narrative, which I hope I've done. I'm not an unbiased judge, but I do think this is by far the most thorough book about The Velvet Underground likely to be published, with a great deal of previously unknown information and anecdotes in its approximately 300,000 words.

 

Can you tell me about your 400 page book The Unreleased Beatles: Music And Film?

It details the massive wealth of music The Beatles recorded that they did not release, as well as musical footage of the group that hasn't been made commercially available. That means all unreleased studio outtakes, BBC radio recordings from 1962-65, live concert performances, home demos, private tapes, fan club Christmas recordings, and other informal recordings done outside of EMI studios that have escaped into circulation. It has chronologically sequenced entries for all The Beatles' unreleased recordings of note from 1957 to 1970, as well as all the unreleased Beatles musical video footage of note from 1961 to 1970.
Also included are overviews of songs composed by The Beatles that were never recorded by the group, but given away to other artists; recordings known or rumoured to have been made by the group that haven't yet circulated; Beatles compositions never recorded by anyone; coverage of music the group didn't release while active, but later put out on albums such as The Beatles At The Hollywood Bowl, Live! At The Star-Club, Live At The BBC, Let It Be...Naked, and the Anthology volumes; and a history of Beatles bootlegs. There are also about 100 illustrations, including numerous bootleg album covers and relatively seldom seen photos of the group.
Again I'm not an objective observer, but I really hope the book is written so that it can be enjoyed by any Beatles fan, not just maniac collectors. A lot of these kinds of books, whether for The Beatles or other artists, have good information but are pretty dry. I think it's essential to actually describe the music, not just give dates, running times, and mix variations. That includes descriptive analysis and behind-the-scenes stories that emphasise the music's, and the band's, most human, artistic qualities. It also includes putting this music in the context of The Beatles' career, and hopefully giving readers an insight into their aspects of their creative process that might not be readily evident from the many other books on the group.
There's more information about the book, including excerpts from the volume, on my website at www.richieunterberger.com/ubeatles.html.

 

There have been many books on The Beatles, which ones would you say are the most definitive/accurate?

Mark Lewisohn's The Beatles Recording Sessions has to be at the top of the list, at least as far as an overview of their studio recordings goes—and the studio recordings are by far the most important part of their legacy. Though The Beatles Anthology might suffer from only reflecting the viewpoint of The Beatles and a few close associates, I do think it has a lot of good and largely accurate information. Lewisohn's The Complete Beatles Chronicle might be more a reference book than a biography, but it's a very accurate and thorough guide to their professional activities. I have a list of what I consider the dozen or so best Beatles books, along with brief descriptions of each, on my website at www.richieunterberger.com/beatlebooks.html.

 

What do you think of the official books on The Beatles and the individual members (i.e. the Barry Miles/Paul McCartney tome, etc.,)?

Though some of them might hold back information and perspectives that might not show the group in the most flattering light, I think some of them are pretty good, useful, and insightful. Barry Miles's Paul McCartney: Many Years From Now is a good example; that's especially useful for McCartney's rundown of nearly every song from The Beatles era credited to Lennon-McCartney, how they were written, and who wrote what. Hunter Davies's authorised biography has been criticised (especially by John Lennon) for being sanitised, but by the standards of its 1968 publication date, it was actually pretty frank; has a lot of basic biographical background that acts as a cornerstone for everything that followed, though it doesn't cover the music itself in much depth; and benefits from the first-hand participation of all four Beatles. The Beatles Anthology, like I said, has a wealth of interesting memories and stories, though the absence of some key voices like Pete Best, Yoko Ono, and Allen Klein means that it's not ideally balanced. At the other end of the spectrum, some of the Yoko Ono-overseen projects about John Lennon seem tilted toward a rosy view of him, and George Harrison's autobiographical I Me Mine was disappointingly insubstantial.

 

Is there anything else that can be written/said about The Beatles that hasn’t yet been published?

Although The Beatles have been researched in more depth than any musicians (and possibly any people of any sort from the twentieth century), there are always surprises to be found, though probably not many earthshaking ones at this point. If anyone finds a lot of previously unknown material, I think it's going to be Mark Lewisohn (probably the world's top Beatles expert) in the course of his mammoth upcoming three-volume Beatles biography, though it's hard to say before the first volume is published. Peter Doggett's upcoming You Never Give Me Your Money: The Battle For The Soul Of The Beatles will have some previously unpublished information about the group's demise.

 

How do you find publishers for your books?

The two publishers I've used the most often, Backbeat Books and the Rough Guides, became familiar with my work via contributions I made to some of their volumes. They expressed interest in my submitting book proposals of their own, and I've published with each of them since the late 1990s. My new book on The Velvet Underground is my first to appear on Jawbone Press, a London-based publisher that had already been working with me as the UK distributor of my titles on Backbeat Books.

 

What is your opinion on the debate between official and unofficial artist biographies?

I actually don't hear much of a debate around this raging in my circles. My feeling is, however, that unofficial artist biographies are almost always preferable to official ones. That's for a few reasons, one being that the official ones usually whitewash or omit the more controversial and unsavory aspects of the story. That's a drawback not because it eliminates dirty laundry; it's a drawback because it makes the story less accurate and balanced. Also, official biographies often lack the enthusiasm and dedication evident in unofficial biographies by writers with a huge interest in their subjects' music and lives. If you're including autobiographies in the category of official biographies, many of those by musicians are simply dull, or obviously ghost-written. Writing a book uses different skills than making music, and with a few exceptions like Ray Davies of The Kinks and Eddie Shaw of The Monks, a lot of rock autobiographies simply aren't written that well, or at least in an exciting fashion.
The one advantage of official biographies is that the author often gets access to first-hand interviews, and/or valuable research material, that isn't available if you go the unofficial route. Often it seems that the price to pay, however, is sacrifice of an honest or distinctive viewpoint on part of the writer, with the "authorized" subject making sure to eliminate what they don't want covered and perspectives to which they object.

 

How has the Internet aided you as an archivist/researcher of popular music history?

Certainly it's aided me. In many respects, it's easier to find interview subjects, especially little-known ones, with the aid of the Internet. The Internet has also made available a lot of raw information and music that would have taken far longer to obtain in pre-Internet days, and sometimes impossible to obtain. That noted, the Internet also has to be used with caution, since much of the information—including some on sites that present themselves as very authoritative—is flawed, incomplete, or inaccurate.

 

What are your opinions on the music magazine trade in the States?

Since I write primarily about music history, not current music, I don't read the music press much, and might not be a good person to ask about this. From what I do see, however, it seems like music magazines are in a pretty desultory state in the US. Some are disappearing, of course, and others are drastically shrinking in size and in the scope of their coverage. It seems that there's too much blandness and fear of getting too specialized for fear of not attracting the general reader. There certainly seems more room in the UK for music magazines with a more historical and specialised bent allowing room for features on more than what's currently very popular, such as Mojo, Uncut, and Record Collector.

 

Hypothetically, what do you think the future is for music magazines?

It doesn't look so good at the moment, does it? It seems like the trend is for more of them to disappear, and for the bulk of music coverage to shift to the Internet. I'm not an impartial observer, but I think this is worrying as I believe the quality of writing on Internet is notably inferior to the quality of writing in print publications, especially on blogs, though there are some exceptions. I think the ones that aim to survive should offer material not available elsewhere in terms of in-depth interviews and lengthy interesting features on musicians (current and historical) who haven't been covered often. I think Ugly Things magazine in the US, which specialises in 1960s rock (though it covers some other eras and styles), is an example of enthusiastic scholarship that unearths a great deal of information never before published, though its specialised focus limits its audience and publication schedule. It's possible to do this kind of thing on the Internet too, one example being the webzine Perfect Sound Forever, which has a lot of uncompromising features and interviews, though it's not a profit-making enterprise.

 

Which music books would you recommend?

Here are some of my favorites, however, in a list not meant to be too definitive:

Always Magic In The Air, by Ken Emerson (an overview of the Brill Building New York pop-rock factory of the early 1960s)

Dear Boy: The Life Of Keith Moon, by Tony Fletcher

Follow The Music, by Jac Holzman and Gavan Daws (an oral history of Elektra Records)

Girls Like Us, by Sheila Weller (the personal lives of Carole King, Joni Mitchell, and Carly Simon)

High Fidelity, by Nick Hornby (best fictional treatment of rock record collector geeks)

The Byrds: Timeless Flight: The Sequel, by Johnny Rogan

Let It Blurt: The Life And Times Of Lester Bangs, America's Greatest Rock Critic, by Jim DeRogatis

There's A Riot Going On: Revolutionaries, Rock Stars, And The Rise And Fall Of 60s Counter-culture, by Peter Doggett

X-Ray: The Unauthorised Autobiography, by Ray Davies

Remembering Buddy, by John Goldrosen and John Beecher (about Buddy Holly)

The Beatles Recording Sessions, by Mark Lewisohn

 

Throughout your career, which artists have you enjoyed interviewing?

I think I've interviewed almost 1000 musicians, and most of the interviews have been positive experiences. Some of the ones I enjoyed the most, though, were Arthur Brown, Doug Yule (of The Velvet Underground), Dorothy Moskowitz (of the United States of America), Chris Darrow (of Kaleidoscope), Penelope Houston, Giorgio Gomelsky (producer), Phil May (of the Pretty Things), Halimah Collingwood (formerly Sherry Snow), Billy Harrison (guitarist with Them), Geoff Emerick (Beatles engineer), Mark Landon (of the Music Machine), and Barry Melton (of Country Joe & the Fish).

 

And the least enjoyable interviews?

Amazingly, I think only a half-dozen or so of the interviews I've done have been notably unpleasant. I don't want to name the artists in this category who are still living, so I'll just say that one underrated one who had a couple hits seemed suspicious to the point of paranoia and only seemed to talk about his vintage music with the reluctance of someone undergoing a painful dental procedure. Another, from a fairly well known but not superstar 1960s group, repeatedly growled about how stupid my questions were and how unqualified I was to be doing the book for which I was trying to interviewing him before the exchange terminated after about ten minutes; I did not use any of the material from the conversation. Someone I spoke to for The Velvet Underground book (not from the band itself) at first asked for money and then, after accepting that funds would not be paid, demanded that I write in the book that they wanted Lou Reed or John Cale to produce their next project, hanging up on me after I said I could not agree to this. I did not use any of the material from that interview (in any case, that character was very peripheral to The Velvet Underground story).
To name a couple people no longer with us, Davey Graham was extremely uninformative and incoherent in his answers to my questions, as well as cutting the interview short with an inscrutable joke. Screaming Lord Sutch wasn't rude during our interview and did volunteer some memories, but seemed very sluggish and downbeat; he committed suicide a few years later.

 

Are you a full-time writer? What is your daily routine?

Yes, I've been a full-time freelance writer since 1996. Freelance duties are so varied and unpredictable that it's impossible to say what an average day is; there is no routine. I do get up much earlier than most people assume writers get up (between 6am and 7am) and usually spend about ten hours a day doing some combination of writing, interviewing, transcribing, reviewing, researching, or making phone calls, depending upon the project I'm doing (and I'm usually doing several at once). I also spend, out of increased necessity, a fair amount of time trying to promote my books by doing radio/phone interviews and events, as well as help my publishers publicise them by gathering contacts and information.

 

What advice would you give to an aspiring non-fiction writer?

It seems like I get asked this question a few times a year, and I'm afraid I don't have a good answer, or at least an easy one. There's a lot of competition to be published, and these days at least it seems like the number and range of paid outlets is shrinking. Generally, I would advise trying to develop expertise on subjects that aren't too common or being covered by too many writers, and be extremely persistent in trying to get this published. But at the same time, keeping in mind that the biggest factor in getting exposure is not the effort involved in working the system, but the quality of your writing and research.

 

After years of writing about music, what is your music (records, books, and memorabilia, etc.,) collection like?

It's pretty big, but not as mammoth as some people would imagine it to be, or as mammoth as some collectors I know who aren't involved in media. I don't keep count, but I think I have about 7000-8000 albums (that includes CDs, LPs, and things I still have only on cassette). I'm not insistent on first pressings or vinyl or things like that; the main thing is that I have the music in decent sound quality in some format. I don't know how many music books I have, but it's probably in the range of 500-1000. I actually don't have much in the way of photos/posters/memorabilia, though I like looking at them in other collections and as reproductions in books.

 

Finally, what are your future projects?

The only future book that I've signed a deal for at the moment is The Who: From Lifehouse To Quadrophenia, which should come out on Jawbone Press around late 2010 or early 2011. As the title implies, it examines the concept albums The Who did (or in Lifehouse's case, tried to do) in the early 1970s. I always have several other ideas floating around, but it's hard to say which ones will get accepted by publishers. I'll probably continue to write numerous reviews and liner notes, and the extensive interview with Billy Harrison of Them I noted above should be published in the near future as a feature in Ugly Things magazine

 

Interview by Neil Daniels 2008